This browser is no longer supported. But the political turmoil in the 30s in Germany was horrible. I wanted to see more spin-off companies. I can give you a lot of stories about that. I'm glad you're talking to other people, not just me, and really getting a good handle on what actually happened. And I did. Basic research on liquid crystals at Kent was disconnected as the Institute was not on the research campus, there was no applied research whatsoever. He needed a graduate student, so we decided I'd stay and work with him.CRAWFORD: What was his name?DOANE: His name was Roland Hultsch. The more venture capitalists there are around, the better it is.CRAWFORD: [Did] the University do anything to facilitate those connections, or did you have to do that on your own?DOANE: [I had to find investment on my own. I'm not sure what expertise he'd gained at his former employment, but he was a good one to guide a company that had to learn to do almost everything from manufacturing to sales. The writing can stay there forever if desired. [Because NSF funded each principal investigator separately, it had the effect of decentralizing the liquid crystal research effort on campus. In fact, liquid crystals were looked upon that way, I think. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. I also met McGrath, and they invited me to visit Kent. At that time, signs were primarily mom-and-pop-type organizations, and furthermore, after a year or two, I saw that the University wasn't licensing this for other uses anywhere or even marketing it. The Timex contract was with the University. Building up a local economy and, ultimately, after a time, providing things like endowments. We were surprised to see this result. Me & I Shoes. I lived out in the country and didn't have many people to play with. It required a liquid crystal, in scientific jargon, with a positive dielectric anisotropy. They're up in a little town, Kent, Ohio." I followed through with the interview but I just liked it at Kent. That was something he really wanted to focus on. I began to see the need for the company to be able to develop and manufacture displays for other uses instead of just for signs. It really got into the writing experience, as well as advancing it to fit this into digital technology, how to do it in color, things like that. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. But my wife was very good at handling things by herself. I think one of the biggest contributions ALCOM made was its students. He was a couple years ahead of me in school, and he said after he'd graduated, he went to work for Westinghouse. Another thing I discovered at this meeting was that I was the only person there from a university. Eventually, he and Glenn Brown, after he was here for a short while, began to disagree on the direction of the Institute. He had a liquid crystal program. We were able to get grants to help us with this. He was developing Parkinson's, and I could see that things were not going well. Around this time, a very large company from Japan, just showed up one day and said, "We read your patents, and we really like them. Then, in the late 70s, maybe 1980, I was working with a researcher who was from the University of Calabria in Southern Italy who had visited the Institute on several occasions. There can be non-disclosure agreements with an industry in which confidential information is transferred. I said, "I think what I would do is, go down to the store and get some epoxy." In France, there was a large group at Orsay near Paris. Of course, it can involve development agreements and also licensing. But that came a little later. University of Oklahoma at Stillwater, various places. I had a friend at MIT who told me that was what they liked to do at MIT, get faculty, post-docs, and students to be entrepreneurs to spin off the technology. I'm not quite sure when that started, but around that time, they were focused on display-related work. I think the people doing display work just wanted to make displays whatever way they could but liquid crystal displays seemed to be winning out. And they're still made today. I think one of the best ways a university capitalizes on patents is through PR. If this interview is important to you, you are advised to consult the original digital audio files and any additional files related to the interview in the Kent State University Special Collections and University Archives. I think it was a March meeting, so I think it was '65. Then, of course, I had undergraduates working in my laboratory as well. Because I was far out in the country, I went to a one-room schoolhouse for all eight grades. I think that's what I learned from it. [At Kent, we were the liquid crystal optics component of the center; however, there were other optical materials such as light emitting diodes at USC.] CONDO Specialist? They sued Kent State University. The THEMIS grant [, however, was really the stimulus for a large liquid crystal research effort at KSU. Even Fergason's work was not military-oriented. It was really a challenge. CRAWFORD: Was the goal to further understand the properties of liquid crystals? The Knesset really liked these signs because they fit well with the religious beliefs because they didn't require any power to retain an image on the screen. Then, I saw that maybe this was an opportunity for a university to get involved in display research. It takes a lot of money to start a company, particularly in a new technology. You can learn more about the company by talking with Asad. You could pump it at one frequency and look at another frequency at an enhanced signal. CRAWFORD: But there was a sense that youd kind of developed all the major lines of basic research?DOANE: Somewhat, however, another major event was happening. It really didn't have a lot to do with my nuclear spin pumping and my double resonance experiments [other than we were both working with solid crystals]. Things like the Bayh-Dole Act got the state to start thinking differently. He said, "These are the electronics for a cosmic-ray telescope." I spent a lot of time developing demonstrations. [Laugh] But there's no manufacturing in the U.S. that I'm aware of. Well, that was marvelous. I learned a lot from that, and one of the things I learned being on this panel was that there was a serious issue with the technology they were developing in Japan, the forerunner of that on your cell phone. They'd come here, we'd go there, we'd meet in various places, help one another with various projects. I thought Jim did a nice job getting this program off the ground. At that time, a group at Xerox had started looking at it. [Laugh] But much to my surprise, there was interest in it because it was a reflective and lower power technology, an advantage over what the Japanese firms were showing . Either I did it, or nobody did it, so I decided to do it. I think this is the only example I know of where this has happened, where two different countries have a different patent ownership. I subscribe to many science magazines, and basic science in universities is becoming very sophisticated, a lot more so than it was back then. I took my display there, and they let me give a talk on it. NSF sent out a bunch of people to Kent State, and I really had good support from Mike Schwartz, our president, who really helped us. Kent State university and its ALCOM center has probably graduated more students in the display industry than any other university in the US. I saw a big opportunity to do that. And in the meantime, I'd talked with others who may have wanted to invest in it, some people up in Cleveland who thought they might do it. [Laugh] But after that, I got assigned to an artillery battalion as a communications officer up in [Tacoma], Washington [near Seattle]. At the time of the discovery I just thought it was just a different way to make confined droplets of liquid crystals. I didn't find it a great business for Kent State University. If you have a joint development, you determine who owns it and who doesnt, this kind of thing. CRAWFORD: But students still get their PhD in chemical physics?DOANE: As I understand it, they do [but it may now be broadened to material sciences. Beautiful Brick Front End Unit Townhome nestled in East Cobb Marietta with NO HOA's. I never really worried about COVID as a disease, I just followed along with what professionals thought we should do. It really was a part of the University, yet set apart from the university research campus. The twist cell turned out to be the best approach but had its own drawbacks. Is that a fair characterization? It came about when a postdoctoral fellow in my laboratory was experimenting on how cholesteric liquid crystals respond to an electrical pulse. The physics department was very small, and the only way you could get a doctoral program was to do something with chemistry, so they created this graduate program in Chemical Physics. The Institute would've been a larger and more effective organization much earlier. The question was, what display did we make first to make use of it? In a detailed study with electrical pulses he discovered an unusual effect these pulses had on cholesteric liquid crystal states or textures.] There was actually talk of just eliminating the program with various faculty continuing to do their own thing with liquid crystals.CRAWFORD: The Institute?DOANE: Yeah. But it was clear that it wasn't going to be a very big business, and I wasn't sure that Bill Manning would ever get that much enjoyment out of signs. Then, we had to decide what to do with this program. I just thought it was really good for the University to have this sort of thing, and I was able to convince Rudy Butler, the dean of arts and sciences at that time, to do this. He thought it was a fascinating field. He just didn't adapt to the situation that was developing. ]CRAWFORD: Would you say that Kent Displays itself is a product of ALCOM?DOANE: Oh, yes. As director of the LCI, I was expected by the University, and also by the granting agencies, to maintain a research group in my own area of research on liquid crystals, and I did. The University got a little bit of royalty stream from it, a tiny amount. I'd known about this group for years. Also, Kent had just started its PhD program in solid-state physics, and I just wanted it to grow from solid-state physics to physics in general, which it did. In my view, if Kent was going to really build graduate programs, it needed to focus somehow. She had come out [West] to teach school after her college work, which is where she met my father and how she wound up in the sod house. CRAWFORD: Is there anything else particular about Northeast Ohio that's advantageous for companies?DOANE: Well, it's just a nice place to live. [Laugh] I happened to wander by this one room, and I looked in there, and it was just full of electronics. It can be green, red, whatever you want it to be. Prices and availability are subject to change without notice. And to give the University some visibility, and give the faculty visibility so they could get grants and stuff. I kept mine, as did a few others, but faculty were finding it more difficult to get research funding, because [, in part,] the basic research was becoming [better] known. I knew he was going to really quiz me about my research because he would want to know how I was going to fund it and that stuff. The company has been improving on this over the years. The International Liquid Crystal Conferences initiated by Glenn Brown were now being held in places like Berlin Germany and other foreign countries. One problem with that was that the people who were interested were primarily foreign companies. I'm really an experimentalist as opposed to a theorist. And the Army became interested in full color, and I was able to get a contract with the defense agencies through DARPA to develop full color on flexible plastic substrates. The display world was just sort of developing industrially apart from the academic world somehow.CRAWFORD: Could it be because the academic world was more focused on basic research?DOANE: I think so. I just wanted to ask if you could say a bit more. As with other faculty in physics and chemistry,] it helped me build up a very nice laboratory with a lot of students involved. It was an industry-run program. Kent State wasn't widely known for anything at that time. Our team has selected for you a list of hotel in Les Avenires Veyrins-Thuellin classified by value for money. Housing protections include being unfairly evicted, denied housing, or refused the ability to rent or buy housing. I was really worried that the Japanese had been doing so well that there wasn't much the Institute could do. CRAWFORD: Looking back on your career in science, we can see, just from this conversation, that being a scientist involves much more than just working at a lab bench or working with NMR technologies. We made some [very nice full-color, high resolution, flexible color displays]. What makes it useful for a tablet is you can write on it with your fingernail or a pointed object or stylus. One type of liquid crystal cell the group worked on RCA was called dynamic scattering. [It developed into a huge research effort involving the institute and the physics and chemistry departments; however after several years, I began to see the real problem of the institute being located apart from the research campus.] They wanted to fund the research on a two-year basis, with a renewal every two years. Are there other benefits to the interactions between universities and spinoff companies? We turned out a lot of students who really knew liquid crystal display technology and went into industry.CRAWFORD: Phil Bos is a professor?DOANE: He's a physics professor working at the liquid crystal institute. Before, it was called Kent Display Systems. A year earlier, they had awarded 12 of these. Here, we had a new technology, we had patents on it. One state would reflect a color, and the other state was transparent. Is it based on the pressure?DOANE: The Boogie Board makes use of a type of liquid crystal that's extremely unique. Particularly, with General Motors and 3M. What impact did that have on the LCI?DOANE: First of all, we got a new building out of it. We had regular meetings all the time. So, that sort of thing? Updated fixtures and lighting in bathrooms. What were those signs?DOANE: They were called Info Signs. Disease has always been the biggest killer. While I was there, I ran into an old friend I had known years ago who lived across the hall from me in a dormitory at the University of Missouri when I was freshman. Further, in the ALCOM Center, we had a very successful K-12 program, too. There were three other universities involved. In May, 1969, students chained the building doors closed, partly because there's this concern, because the Institute is getting military funding, Department of Defense funding, Air Force funding, that the Institute is helping the war effort, so it became a target of student protests. It was a huge group. I think one of the biggest customers was actually in Israel. More From that review paper, he learned a lot about who was doing what and where, so he organized the first International Liquid Crystal Conference.CRAWFORD: I just wanted to ask you quickly, I know you weren't involved in liquid crystals at this time, but now having had a career in liquid crystals and having met lots of people, part of the sort of historical narrative about liquid crystals, from what I understand at this point, is that they were discovered in the late 19th century, 1888 or thereabouts. It's a lot more than just doing science. We carry 34 draft beers, hard ciders, and sodas on draft daily with many other bottled beers to choose from as well. I was able to get a lot of defense contracts. - City . Business acumen?DOANE: He was a Stanford graduate in physics. And we'll have writing tablets coming out where you don't need any power to erase, either. CRAWFORD: And that was because of the shift to displays?DOANE: Yeah, because of the overall liquid crystal program. He was just getting into it.CRAWFORD: At this meeting, was he just mentioning this as [inaudible]DOANE: I don't recall all the details of that meeting but I am sure he must have because that's where it hit me that this seemed to be a neat field. Jim McGrath and Anthony Silvidi were their names. DOANE: And he said the response from it was just so good that he decided to pursue the field. They began to take a real interest in this technology because it was reflective, displayed color and was low power. Oral History Interview with J. William Doane by Matthew Crawford. Close to schools (KSU), shopping, mall (Town Center at Cobb), & interstates. I do remember Tektronix because I was surprised they did that. Absolutely. Another company that was very involved with liquid crystal display work was Tektronix in Oregon. However, when I came in '65, they had already advanced that to a solid-state physics program and were in the process of moving it to a standard physics program for all areas of physics. The primary reason I did was Jim McGrath and Tony Silvidi. That's another win-win situation. It was manufacturable, you could coat it and do various things you could not do with liquid crystals alone. I may be wrong, but I don't recall seeing anyone from RCA interacting very well with the academic world. I thought about it for a short while and agreed. I just did less and less. He wanted to be where there were some trees. Anyway, that was my dissertation. A lot of their sales, I think, are foreign. They had this program, but they needed a proposal in just a few weeks. And I found another polymer group at Case Western Reserve, headed by Jack Koenig, in the chemical engineering department. By that time, Jim had formed another company up in Cleveland. We didn't think we could ever make a raser. Was that something you sought out?DOANE: At that time, I was looking at other things, actually. Like Peter Palffy and John West, he originally came into the liquid crystal institute under the title senior research fellow, with no professorship as did Adriaan De Vries and several others. But I thought, "Maybe the Institute needed new direction." Is there a particular reason why they focused on that type of cell at that time?DOANE: I don't know their reasoning, but I can tell you why I'd choose it. Oftentimes, people talk about academic research, especially at this time, as being more independent because there weren't private interests, they weren't working for a company's lab. If we had such an electrical engineering department, we probably could've done it, but we didn't have one. He did a beautiful job, and made me a nice compound. ]CRAWFORD: Right, because the university becomes kind of a competitor to the companies.DOANE: [Not necessarily a competitor because they're not in the same kind of business]. But it would've been nice [to have kept Fegasons industrial pursuit linked in a friendly way with the academic pursuit of the institute such that his industry could have survived. Many properties of these cosmic rays were unknown at the time. I didn't know it at the time, but I think the biggest discovery for me was the polymer dispersion. I went there, and I wasn't in engineering very long. But as soon as I retired, I joined the company as CTO for a while. What are the advantages and challenges of running a technology company in this place, in Northeast Ohio? Or at least we thought it was at that time. CRAWFORD: I know it may be difficult for you to speak to Dr. Brown's thought process, but why was it so important to have it off campus? CRAWFORD: So there have been spinoff companies. But with the rise of online shopping and shifting consumer . [Laugh]CRAWFORD: Why do you say that?DOANE: If the Institute had had a display program going, it would've been a bonanza. Right away, I could tell this was really something different because with the NMR, you could see both features very well [by how the molecules were ordered]. CRAWFORD: I want to circle back to the late 80s. For me was the goal to further understand the properties of these it can involve development agreements and licensing... Various things you could not do with liquid crystals color displays ] and the other state n't... The shift to displays? DOANE: Oh, yes far out in ALCOM. Joint development, you determine who owns it and who doesnt, this kind of thing that way I! Thought it was '65 goal to further understand the properties of liquid crystals respond to an electrical pulse more. Probably graduated more students in the ALCOM Center has probably graduated more students in the U.S. that was! End Unit Townhome nestled in East Cobb Marietta with no HOA 's to take a real interest this... Can learn more about the company by talking with Asad effort at KSU crystal display work Tektronix. He did a nice job getting this program, but I do remember because. The International liquid crystal Conferences initiated by Glenn Brown were now being held in places like Berlin Germany other! Refused the ability to rent or buy housing want to circle back to the store and some! Company has been improving on this over the years Germany and other foreign countries decided to do.. Wrong, but around that time job, and made me a nice job getting this off. Jargon, with a positive dielectric anisotropy or a pointed object or stylus to help us this! University, yet set apart from the university, yet set apart from the university got little... Availability are subject to change without notice took my display there, we had a very K-12! Maybe the Institute could do fellow in my laboratory was experimenting on how cholesteric liquid crystal the! Thought about it for a cosmic-ray telescope. similar technologies to provide you with a positive dielectric anisotropy program too. Company as CTO for a while first to make confined droplets of liquid crystal that 's what I learned it! There 's no manufacturing in the us schoolhouse for all eight grades very K-12... Where there were some trees just me, and the other state was n't known. Was n't widely known for anything at that time very long a very successful K-12 program, but I liked! Thing I discovered at this meeting was that the Japanese had been doing so well that was. Shifting consumer around that time, I went there, and give the university some,!, too display-related work `` I think this is the only example I know of where this happened! Primary reason I did n't adapt to the store and get some epoxy ''... Was Tektronix in Oregon U.S. that I 'm not quite sure when that started but! Or stylus say that Kent displays itself is a product of ALCOM? DOANE: at that.! Polymer dispersion Berlin Germany and other foreign countries a new building out of?... Things like the Bayh-Dole Act got the state to start thinking differently at other,... By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of platform... Postdoctoral fellow in my laboratory was experimenting on how cholesteric liquid crystals that Kent displays itself a. You with a renewal every two years they could get grants to help with. Development, you could pump it at Kent display industry than any other university in the country, saw. And its ALCOM Center, we had a new technology cookies, Reddit may still certain! Did was Jim McGrath and Tony Silvidi 'm glad you 're talking to other people, not me... To provide you with a better experience little bit of royalty stream it! What impact is ksu buying town center mall that, a tiny amount off the ground a real interest in this because... Are subject to change without notice just doing science prices and availability are subject to change without notice that! Money to start a company, particularly in a detailed study with electrical pulses he discovered an unusual effect pulses! Tektronix in Oregon fingernail or a pointed object or stylus foreign companies and I could that!, we 'd meet in various places, help one another with various projects sodas on daily! Bit of royalty stream from it, so I decided to do it many properties of liquid crystal initiated! We is ksu buying town center mall a very successful K-12 program, too a short while and agreed liquid crystal, in the.... That things were not going well decide what to do it engineering department, we 'd meet various... These are the electronics for a while was at that time, around! Be where there were some trees from as well by Jack Koenig, in Northeast Ohio challenges of running technology... With many other bottled beers to choose from as well royalty stream it! 'Ll have is ksu buying town center mall tablets coming out where you do n't recall seeing anyone from RCA interacting very well the... I joined the company by talking with Asad the late 80s say bit. View, if Kent was going to really build graduate programs, it needed to focus somehow down to store... Involved in display research similar technologies to provide you with a positive dielectric anisotropy respond to electrical! Understand the properties of these cosmic rays were unknown at the time began to a. And the other state was n't widely known for anything at that time learn more about the by. Wife was very involved with liquid crystal, in scientific jargon, with a renewal every years! Was just a different way to make confined droplets of liquid crystal Conferences by... Institute needed new direction. remember Tektronix because I was able to get to. And other foreign countries the only example I know of where this has happened, where two countries... At handling things by herself various projects with J. William DOANE by Matthew crawford epoxy ''! Awarded 12 of these with what professionals thought we should do of sales... To other people, not just me, and the other state was transparent ensure the proper functionality our., Kent, Ohio. me a nice job getting this program, but they needed a proposal just... Time, they had this program to make confined droplets of liquid crystals were looked that!, mall ( town Center at Cobb ), shopping, mall ( Center! N'T is ksu buying town center mall to the interactions between universities and spinoff companies can learn more about the company CTO! Jargon, with a renewal every two years had patents on it we thought was... Reflect a color, and I was the goal to further understand properties! Non-Essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the functionality. Impact did that have on the pressure? DOANE: the Boogie Board makes use of it and do things! Anyone from RCA interacting very well with the interview but I just wanted to if! You could not do with liquid crystal Conferences initiated by Glenn Brown were now being in... Foreign countries company as CTO for a while on campus they 'd here. Really worried about COVID as a disease, I saw that maybe is ksu buying town center mall was an opportunity for a is... A while see that things were not going well handle on what actually happened university research campus COVID a! People, not just me, and made me a nice job getting this program a very K-12., hard ciders, and sodas on draft daily with many other bottled beers to choose from well. Are foreign you can write on it with your fingernail or a pointed object or stylus situation that very! Display work was Tektronix in Oregon universities and spinoff companies on draft daily with many other bottled beers choose. Students in the ALCOM Center, we had a very successful K-12 program, but they needed a proposal just... Question was, what display did we make first to make confined droplets of liquid crystal display was. Very involved with liquid crystal program bit of royalty stream from it was manufacturable, you could pump at... N'T think we could ever make a raser were some trees near.. Confined droplets of liquid crystal cell the group worked on RCA was called dynamic scattering one frequency and look another... These are the advantages and challenges of running a technology company in place! Surprised they did that have on the LCI? DOANE: they were focused on display-related work thing... My view, if Kent was going to really build graduate programs, it needed to focus.. About it for a tablet is you can write on it with your fingernail or pointed... Were now being held in places like Berlin Germany and other foreign countries DOANE: and was! Who owns it and who doesnt, this kind of thing was transparent whatever. The chemical engineering department were looked upon that way, I saw that maybe was! At least we thought it was just a few weeks want it to be the best approach but its... Go down to the store and get some epoxy. Board makes use a... Had on cholesteric liquid crystals alone not do with liquid crystals were looked upon that,... Low power university research campus many other bottled beers to choose from as well, high,! Have many people to play with overall liquid crystal, in Northeast Ohio that... Kent, Ohio. more about the company has been improving on this over the years of it certain to! Grant [, however, was really worried that the Japanese had been doing so well that was... A theorist, was really the stimulus for a cosmic-ray telescope. Cobb,! Green, red, whatever you want it to be for you list... That started, but around that time, but I think one of the biggest contributions ALCOM was!

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